I just have to post this. I attended a newbie night with the Minnesota Skeptics last night. It was fantastic. I'm trying to remedy the fact that my social network has shriveled considerably and I simply find life pretty lonely at times. I still have great friends who are believers, but it's quite difficult when you think about religion and god a vast majority of the time, but can't share those thoughts for fear of offending others.
I've been trying to branch out to groups like the MN Skeptics and the Minnesota Atheists to find companions who are open-minded and receptive to my venting and sharing about my situation. This phase is taxing to both my wife and I, but I think she's far more well-supported considering she still shares common belief with everyone and is still in her weekly-meeting couple's group (which I was asked to depart from). I don't have such types of support, and would also add that the support she receives is much more "empathetic" (I'm so sorry you're enduring this, god has a plan, we're here for you, etc.) while mine tends to be primarily focused on accountability/challenging (remember -- you're still obligated to be a good husband, are you reading the right stuff?, how are you caring for your wife?, you do realize this is really hard on your wife, right?, why don't you want to raise your kids believers?, etc.). This can be taxing.
So, I'm at this meeting last night at a cafe, and the meetup organizers were introducing the group, what it's about, an intro to skepticism/rationality/critical-thinking, etc., and then had everyone introduce themselves. I shared a bit about my history and also mentioned the name of the outreach group I used to be affiliated with, Saint Paul's Outreach, as well as the lay-community of Catholic Families that I made a life-long commitment to, Community of Christ the Redeemer. This was actually a bit atypical; I hardly ever actually mention the names, at least online, but I guess since it was a local face-to-face meeting I did.
Guess what happened next? One of the organizers pipes in and says that he used to belong to both groups! What are the chances of that? Were I still a believer and ran into a former member of these groups (assuming he was still a believer, too) in such a small group, my heart would have warmed at the thought of how crazily "providential" such an occurrence was.
I felt compelled to mention this event because many still find it extremely difficult to dismiss apparent "miracles" or "acts of divine providence" when it comes to the possibility that god might not be real. This is just one example of how such things continue on. Unlikely things still happen... just not as often as, well, likely things. Because such events are out of the ordinary, we feel compelled to find a "why" behind the "what."
I don't think this is necessary any longer. The world is not revolving around you or I, and that's okay. Acts of "providence" (the atheistic kind) still happen to me (the event above is not the only time something like this has happened post-deconversion). Perhaps we simply see only what we look for.
25 April 2011
Taking a break
I'm announcing a short-medium term break for a while. I have a lot of reading to do and am quite prone to distraction. I plan on attempting not to follow any blogs until I finish "my chores" which I think will keep me more on task and especially out of the o-so-tempting comment dialogs I careen into!
Once I finish some rationality-improvement exercises, I'll be starting on my book list and will definitely be posting my summaries for those just like some of my others.
So, after I post this, I'm un-following all blogs except the comments thread on this one. I still want to respond to any readers who stop by to visit or post.
Once I finish some rationality-improvement exercises, I'll be starting on my book list and will definitely be posting my summaries for those just like some of my others.
So, after I post this, I'm un-following all blogs except the comments thread on this one. I still want to respond to any readers who stop by to visit or post.
16 April 2011
Some Updates + Plan Forward
It's been a while since I've posted. I've decided to set some goals for my "quest"... and then accomplish them.
Much of this renewed vigor came from some requests for advice from various sources. I primarily asked for comments regarding the petrified-ness I experience when we have to be among a lot of members of the religious community I used to participate in (and with which my wife is still involved). I hate the idea of my non-belief coming up and starting an uncomfortable discussion, people learning about my non-belief "through the grapevine" and being offended that I didn't tell them, or entering into pointless and heated debates.
Probably the biggest suggestion I received was to finish "my statement" and make it available as a quick way to get out of a sticky situation. In other words, instead of having to risk a pointless debate, when asked what prompted my non-belief, I can simply respond, "Why don't I just send you my summary when I get home?" That way, there's no face to face pressure of thinking one of us needs to be conclusively demonstrated to be wrong right then and there, and they get to read my reasons at their own pace and without feeling like there needs to be an immediate rebuttal. Also, this has the added benefit of allowing lots of sources to be provided, since in face to face debates I often find myself stating something, being challenged, and then being without computer access to show them my source. This makes one look foolish, but then again I don't think it's reasonable to be expected to have a mental catalog of everything you've read ready for quoting!
This re-energized me to finish THIS.
And that led me to want to re-attack THIS. Finishing that list will help with a lot of things. I want to read those books anyway, just to know more, but it will also be something tangible to point to when challenged about being biased concerning my information uptake. My wife likes to point out that I read solely atheist blogs, which is true. On the other hand, she doesn't read non-devotional materials, believer or non. If she did, I think it would be more apparent that it's pretty difficult to read either side without being made aware of the other. Yes, you're primarily hearing the "last word" from someone on a certain side, but it doesn't mean you're ignorant of any and all apologetics offered by "the other side." For example, you're not going to google "the problem of evil" and read an atheist's discussion of it without hearing mention of the free will defense, soul-building defense, or the like from the theist's position. You may read it such that the atheist addresses those responses while you don't get to hear a theist's responses to those counter-arguments, but I think there's definitely some credit to give to anyone intently reading anyone's side of the issues.
Anyway, the point is that if I can polish off some more books, at least I'll be able to point to a set goal I've met regarding the reading of both sides of the story. I think I'll be changing some of those books. A lot of them aren't at the library, and I don't want to buy them, either.
Also, I've pretty much fallen in love with LessWrong. That sounds odd to say, but it's true. People are so supportive and caring when needed, and quite admirable in their discussion of topics with one another -- seeking to offer counterpoints and challenges and striving to agree on the best possible approximation of The Territory. I also just love the content and approach of the posts. Eliezer Yudkowsky (site founder) is a pleasure to read and I always learn something or see something differently when reading his posts on how to be more rational.
I want to think better. I'm want to have the most reliable approach to evidence and the world that is possible. As such, I've committed to reading through some of the sequences at LW, particularly Map & Territory, Mysterious Answers to Mysterious Questions, Reductionism, and How to Actually Change Your Mind. I'll be taking notes through these and will probably blog my notes. Following reading all of these is when I'll re-start my book reading.
So... there you have it. When I finish the LW posts (with notes), my book list (with notes), and final statement... I think I'll be about done :) Once those are out of the way, I may very well concern myself with other things as best I can. I'm about tired of thinking about religion and god all of the time. I've tried, and think I've tried fairly valiantly to pursue this area. Should I finish the above, I think my attempt will have been even more valiant. At the end of the day, though, I want to get on living and making an impact, and don't think that my religious beliefs actually affect my potential for impacting the world much at all; it just affects the lens I see through while going about actually "doing."
Much of this renewed vigor came from some requests for advice from various sources. I primarily asked for comments regarding the petrified-ness I experience when we have to be among a lot of members of the religious community I used to participate in (and with which my wife is still involved). I hate the idea of my non-belief coming up and starting an uncomfortable discussion, people learning about my non-belief "through the grapevine" and being offended that I didn't tell them, or entering into pointless and heated debates.
Probably the biggest suggestion I received was to finish "my statement" and make it available as a quick way to get out of a sticky situation. In other words, instead of having to risk a pointless debate, when asked what prompted my non-belief, I can simply respond, "Why don't I just send you my summary when I get home?" That way, there's no face to face pressure of thinking one of us needs to be conclusively demonstrated to be wrong right then and there, and they get to read my reasons at their own pace and without feeling like there needs to be an immediate rebuttal. Also, this has the added benefit of allowing lots of sources to be provided, since in face to face debates I often find myself stating something, being challenged, and then being without computer access to show them my source. This makes one look foolish, but then again I don't think it's reasonable to be expected to have a mental catalog of everything you've read ready for quoting!
This re-energized me to finish THIS.
And that led me to want to re-attack THIS. Finishing that list will help with a lot of things. I want to read those books anyway, just to know more, but it will also be something tangible to point to when challenged about being biased concerning my information uptake. My wife likes to point out that I read solely atheist blogs, which is true. On the other hand, she doesn't read non-devotional materials, believer or non. If she did, I think it would be more apparent that it's pretty difficult to read either side without being made aware of the other. Yes, you're primarily hearing the "last word" from someone on a certain side, but it doesn't mean you're ignorant of any and all apologetics offered by "the other side." For example, you're not going to google "the problem of evil" and read an atheist's discussion of it without hearing mention of the free will defense, soul-building defense, or the like from the theist's position. You may read it such that the atheist addresses those responses while you don't get to hear a theist's responses to those counter-arguments, but I think there's definitely some credit to give to anyone intently reading anyone's side of the issues.
Anyway, the point is that if I can polish off some more books, at least I'll be able to point to a set goal I've met regarding the reading of both sides of the story. I think I'll be changing some of those books. A lot of them aren't at the library, and I don't want to buy them, either.
Also, I've pretty much fallen in love with LessWrong. That sounds odd to say, but it's true. People are so supportive and caring when needed, and quite admirable in their discussion of topics with one another -- seeking to offer counterpoints and challenges and striving to agree on the best possible approximation of The Territory. I also just love the content and approach of the posts. Eliezer Yudkowsky (site founder) is a pleasure to read and I always learn something or see something differently when reading his posts on how to be more rational.
I want to think better. I'm want to have the most reliable approach to evidence and the world that is possible. As such, I've committed to reading through some of the sequences at LW, particularly Map & Territory, Mysterious Answers to Mysterious Questions, Reductionism, and How to Actually Change Your Mind. I'll be taking notes through these and will probably blog my notes. Following reading all of these is when I'll re-start my book reading.
So... there you have it. When I finish the LW posts (with notes), my book list (with notes), and final statement... I think I'll be about done :) Once those are out of the way, I may very well concern myself with other things as best I can. I'm about tired of thinking about religion and god all of the time. I've tried, and think I've tried fairly valiantly to pursue this area. Should I finish the above, I think my attempt will have been even more valiant. At the end of the day, though, I want to get on living and making an impact, and don't think that my religious beliefs actually affect my potential for impacting the world much at all; it just affects the lens I see through while going about actually "doing."
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